Corday Productions/Sony Pictures Television
(SoapOperaNetwork.com) — Ratings Report for the Week of September 24-28, 2012
NOTE: Please do not copy and paste the entire ratings. Thank you.
Numbers are based on Live+Same Day ratings
(Compared to Last Week/Compared to Last Year)
1. Y&R 4,450,000 (+161,000/+102,000)
2. B&B 3,277,000 (+138,000/+434,000)
3. GH 2,521,000 (-57,000/-21,000)
4. DAYS 2,356,000 (+44,000/+45,000)
1. Y&R 3.4/12 (+.1/+.1)
2. B&B 2.5/8 (+.1/+.3)
3. GH 1.9/6 (-.1/same)
4. DAYS 1.8/6 (same/+.1)
Women 18-49 Viewers
1. Y&R 810,000 (+76,000/-60,000)
2. B&B 639,000 (+10,000/+90,000)
3. GH 554,000 (-55,000/-115,000)
4. DAYS 496,000 (+47,000/-94,000)
Women 18-49 Rating
1. Y&R 1.3/8 (+.2/-.1)
2. B&B 1.0/7 (same/+.1)
3. GH 0.9/6 (-.1/-.1)
4. DAYS 0.8/5 (+.1/-.1)
Women 18-34 Rating
1. Y&R 0.6 (+.1/-.1)
2. GH 0.5 (-.1/-.1)
3. DAYS 0.4 (-.1/-.2)
3. B&B 0.4 (-.1/same)
Men 18+ Viewers
1. Y&R 973,000 (+30,000/-95,000)
2. B&B 671,000 (-42,000/-1,000)
3, GH 564,000 (+7,000/+76,000)
4. DAYS 480,000 (+1,000/-54,000)
Day-To-Day Ratings – HH/Total Viewers
For the SEASON September 24, 2012 through September 30, 2012
1. Y&R 3.4
2. B&B 2.5
3. GH 1.9
4. DAYS 1.8
Women 18-49 Rating
1. Y&R 1.3
2. B&B 1.0
3. GH 0.9
4. DAYS 0.8
So glad to see Frank and Ron get drops for the crap they have been putting on the air and calling it great.
One of my favorite posters at SON summed up Ron C.’s writing perfectly:
” He’s got five or six ideas that he recycles over and over and over:
DID, rape is funny, dead baby, rape is sexy, high-larious fun with
hookers and strippers and more sexy/funny rape. Throw those ideas up on a
wall with a couple of bumper stickers that say “To hell with
continuity” and “It’s their fault if they don’t get it,” and you’ll
still have room for a couple of black velvet paintings of dogs playing
poker and some poster-size prints of faux pulp magazine covers showing
women in bondage.”
Keep up the “great” work Frank and Ron. The ratings will only go lower as long as you disrespect fans and the show. But of course you will always have your defenders right there taking up your slack. They are willing to watch whatever crap you put on the screen and call it great. Those with discerning taste and good sense are leaving. You aren’t fooling us with your soapy goodness.
Maybe you can critize GH but still it has better ratings than Days (which has a up but ratings are still the worst of the bunch..and the little ‘up’ seems due to Melanie’s character departure..)
I couldn’t agree more TSF, with that poster and you! Cartini will have fans cheering them on all the way to getting GH cancelled.
With all due respect, TiredSoapFan, as justified as you may feel, I would very much appreciate if you would temper your criticism, since it serves no practical function other than to undermine the show. It infuriates and truly saddens me to see posters such as yourself saying you are “So glad” to see drops in viewership, when you know as well as I do that the genre itself is grasping for life and no show can afford to lose a single viewer. I saw people saying things like that in the months before ONE LIFE TO LIVE was cancelled, and then it was; did that satisfy their wishes, did that make them happy? I hope so, because all it has left me is inconsolably bereft. Posters like yourself seem to delight in hammering what may come to be the final nails in the soap genre’s coffin, and I for one have simply had quite enough negativity.
Do I think Carlivati’s stories are the greatest thing since Doug Marland, Agnes Nixon, or Irna Phillips? Not necessarily, but I do think it is far easier to criticize one’s writing than to do the writing oneself, and I for one can appreciate the tremendous strain Carlivati and the writing team at GH is under, given the pressure from both the network, and the breakneck pace at which the writing must be done.
Thus, I feel such vitriolic “insights” as posters such as yourself deem necessary to provide are the last thing in the world this genre needs, and it is my earnest hope that any person who can appreciate the profound effect one’s words and actions may have on the future of this genre, yet simply cannot offer anything but relentless negativity, could have enough respect for those that still care about and have genuine hope for the future of the genre and the shows to gracefully recuse him or herself from the discussion. Thank you.
Well I get tired of being preached at from the “right wing” of the soap world who thinks it is better to shut and let the hacks have their way with the shows out of fear of having another one cancelled. I have watched GH since 1969 and I have watched writers from Guza to RC hack at it for years. And I am tired of it. They just hack one more piece of the dignity of the show away with each passing story. And not just the show but the characters and their history.
Well this soap fan is not going to sit back and watch the show I love be hacked away without a fight for it. And if the writers don’t put on an entertaining and decent show then yes I am going to be happy to see them not get rewarded for it.
In the world of soap operas I am the viewer. I am the consumer. I don’t get paid to watch the show. Frank and Ron get paid to create an entertaining show and a show that makes viewers want to tune in. Well guess what they aren’t doing it. And viewers are tuning out.
Sorry but I don’t buy into your argument of shutting up and letting these hacks have their way. It is because of these hacks like Ron C., FRank V., Maria Bell, Brian Frons, Guza, McTavish, etc. that soaps are in the shape they are in. And they are the reasons that many are cancelled. It is not viewers who speak up or get turned off.
When GH is cancelled it will not be because of the viewers who tuned out. It will be the folks like Ron Carlavati who write such crappy mysogynistic stories that turn viewers off and make them quit watching.
Do you know why OLTL was cancelled? It is because like you said, his stories were so bad people were not happy with them. The big numbers came at the end when folks tuned in to say goodbye. If Ron C. had wrote stories that attracted those viewers and were true to the show, then they would have been there all along — not just to say goodbye. Folks didn’t like what Ron was putting out there so they tuned out. Whether they sit back and shut up or just tune out, the facts remain the same — they weren’t watching. And that is no ones fault but Ron Carlavati.
I can shut up tomorrow and never post about my hatred for his stories again. And so can all the others who are posting, but it still want make the ratings go any higher. And it still won’t bring back the over 100,000 viewers in the 18-49 key demo that have quit since the last week of May 2012. Check out the numbers. They are gone and Ron C. hasn’t brought them back. That is what will get GH cancelled — not folks complaining on a message board.
Maybe if he would listen to the complaints and make some changes that might, but ignoring them sure won’t.
There are so many reasons that the soap genre is in the state it is in that it is beyond the scope of this forum to get into a substantive discussion, or debate, about it. Over this past summer, I read the book “The Survival of Soap Opera: Transformations for a New Media Era,” and it offers some very astute insights into how the genre got to be where it is, and what, if any, remedies can be taken to restore the genre to any semblance of its former glory. I would highly recommend reading this book if you are at all interested in the subject.
The writing of soaps, in general, is certainly a big factor in why soaps have seen such declines in viewership over the years. Faced with aging demographics, writers have been forced to pen stories ostensibly targeted towards a younger audience, which has failed to attract that younger audience and has only driven away the core audience; however, this goes far beyond Ron Carlivati, and beyond the writers themselves, for their actions have been for years micromanaged by the network executives. However, I agree with you that the writing on soaps has been a concern for years, and needs to be addressed. Again, I would highly encourage you to read this book if you are interested in the subject.
For the record, the book I was just discussing, which was edited by Sam Ford, Abigail de Kosnik, and C. Lee Harrington, professors at M.I.T., U.C.L.A Berkeley, and Miami University, respectively, includes a large section on precisely what you are discussing–fan feedback and unhappiness with how the shows are written. Ironically, however, the book singles out Ron Carlivati as the epitome of a classic soap writer who has been instrumental in returning the genre to its roots. On page 127, the authors write “As a genre, however, daytime soap opera is nothing if not resilient, and common sense prevailed on another soap when longtime OLTL writer Ron Carlivati, who took OLTL back to the Basics of Soap Opera 101, was named head writer in 2007.”
The authors then cite a quote from the site Media Domain, which in 2008 wrote that “OLTL is a perfect example of how good writing and an understanding of the soap technique (and it is a separate technique from most TV writing) can lift a genre out of the doldrums and make it soar. All ages of characters, all good actors with story, story building out of story, interwoven and yet with new twists, characters staying in character and pulling story through that, beautiful sets, appropriate costuming, the now-and-then outdoor show…well, it is all coming together to create new excitement and interest in soap fans.”
In answer to your question, I do believe to know why OLTL was cancelled, but as these authors would seem to agree, I can assure you it is not because of Ron Carlivati. It is primarily because of Brian Frons, who was arrogant and had a strong desire to kill two birds with one stone by doing away with both AMC and OLTL in one fell swoop, regardless of whether such a move was wise (and as THE REVOLUTION’s failure showed, it was not). Further, Frons thought (erroneously) of OLTL as having little brand strength, and thereby was strongly biased against it. It had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the show–nothing. As the authors of the book I was discussing conclude on the subject of Carlivati and OLTL, “While some storylines generated under Carlivati’s reign have created controversy, and while not every story or character has resonated with viewers, the renewed OLTL has given rise to much passionate, thoughtful, and contentious discussion among fans–a sure sign of successful soap storytelling, day or night.”
Now, I admit, I digress a bit; I didn’t come here to extol the virtues of Ron Carlivati, but I was rather offended by your comment about OLTL’s cancellation–it is an extremely sore spot for me–so I thought I would at least provide you with the independent opinions of scholars on the subject. I don’t know if any of that makes you change your opinion of Carlivati or his writing on GH any, but at the least, I hope it shows you that your opinions are precisely that–your opinions. You are entitled to them, but not everyone feels the same way you do. Many feel Carlivati has proven himself an excellent writer and an asset to the soap genre. I sincerely hope you will give him time to prove himself a good writer at GH, and hope you will continue watching.
And again, I don’t mean to sound patronizing, and I apologize if that’s how my comments have come across, but I just hope that anything you might say or write be more constructive than simply proclamations of impending doom, and that goes for everyone, not just you; I am sometimes guilty of it myself. I appreciate that you are a soap fan–so am I, and I don’t wish to “shut you up”. I just feel that negativity solves nothing, and I also know that the genre is in a state right now where the shows cannot afford to lose viewers; if indeed you have been watching since 1969, I hope you will not give up now. And maybe what we write here means little in the long run, but I think it is important to foster a more civil community in the online soap-fan world now more than ever, when all of us, I believe, share a common goal: to keep the genre alive.
But I don’t need the opinions of scholars on Ron C. or any other writer. Just like I don’t buy the rantings of online soap opera press who proclaimed him the second coming too. I don’t need to read the book if you have already told me that those guys think Ron C. writes old fashioned soap opera. Ron C. follows the edict of Brian Frons, Bob Guza, and others who focus on men and treat women as 2nd class citizens who can’t live without their men. Ron C. also treats rape as something funny and goes from one plot to the next often without much pay off in the end.
Old fashioned soap opera writing had plots as secondary. It was about characters esp. about strong women characters. And you never set back and watched a character do something that would be out of character.
GH went for years buidling on the characters lives and never rewriting the history of those characters. Ron C. both on GH and OLTL rewrote history so often that he even ends up rewriting the stuff he has written himself.
So no I do not need to read that book. Esp. if they proclaim him as that. Ron C. is one of the chiefs of the hacks that have come along in the last few years. But honestly so many have proclaimed him the 2nd coming and savior that even he believes it now. He is a one talent hack like the rest. Just look at what he does on GH — he is already rewriting stories from OLTL. Just telling the same one note plots that he wrote over there. He writes about rape, undoes it, and writes about DID and one note characters that suddenly become psychos.
And yes Brian Frons was responsible for cancelling both shows. But he didn’t do it alone. The rest of ABC was right there with him. And the writers played a part too. If Ron C. had been writing stories that made people tune in then Brian Frons would have never had the ratings material he needed to get the shows cancelled.
And Brian Frons isn’t there today and Ron C. is still telling the same type stories that were always credited to interference by Frons. The mob is still there. Jason and Sonny are still central. The hospital is still secondary. Men are still king. I mean he even made Sam’s rape more about how it affected Jason. Everyone always said it was Frons who wanted the macho men running around and saving Port Charles. Well now under Ron C. we don’t just have Sonny and Jason but we also have Todd and John. 4 macho saviors and their women just are there to worship and serve their needs.
And the women are all needy, out of character, or just crazy.
And as far as sharing a common goal. The soap opera genre is not dead or in danger of dying. Soap operas are still alive. I still enjoy many primetime soap operas because they are still true to form. It is daytime soaps that are dying. And sorry but as long as they are like they are now, there is a reason they are dying. And the folks behind them just don’t care. There comes a time when you have to quit the stunts and the shock stuff and rely on good old fashioned story telling. Frons and Guza tried to rely on shock and awe to get the ratings up, and now Ron and Frnk are doing the same. Well guess what they get these minor bumps for a few days and then boom right back down. Because the day to day stories and the characters are forgotten about. That is why daytime soaps are dying, and that is why they will continue to die.
Sitting back and being quiet and not speaking up won’t save them. Nothing will stop that until the folks behind the soaps care again — and I mean care about the shows and not just getting a paycheck.
I appreciate the mention of our book…Just wanted to make one quick clarification. Our book is a collection of essays from a variety of different perspectives. It includes pieces from the three co-authors cited here but also a variety of others (Tom Casiello; Tristan Rogers; Sara Bibel; Roger Newcomb; and a range of other scholars, fans, critics, etc.) The piece in question that “Guest” is citing was actually written by one of our contributors, Lynn Liccardo, who writes about soaps at Red Room and elsewhere. All that to say…the particular quotation above is Lynn’s. As I was an ATWT guy and have never regularly watched OLTL, I don’t have a strong statement one way or another re: Ron’s work. I’ll leave that up to your continued debate…
Thank you Mr. Ford for that clarification. It is good to know there was more to the book than just what was quoted. Now I feel compelled to check the book out.
Not to get in the middle of your discussion with TSF, lol, but how do opinions on a message board undermine the show? Obviously TIIC don’t read or care about any negative opinions of their work or the show wouldn’t still be losing viewers. No negativity on a message board made me tune out of GH, and nothing from the Cartini shippers is going to make me tune back in either. The only way that viewers have to get across to the network their disapproval of a show is to stop watching, thereby affecting the ratings numbers. That doesn’t mean anyone wants the genre or GH gone; it means we aren’t being entertained, for whatever reason. I happened to like Guza’s stories, lol, I know I’m in the minority there, so what I’ve seen on GH during both Garin W. and Ron C.’s tenures didn’t thrill me. But I only stopped watching when the GH characters I’d watched for over four decades became strangers to me under RC’s writing and Frank V.’s over the top style of show. So I don’t feel bad for voicing my disapproval of the Cartini changes to GH, or for not watching a show I don’t like anymore. I watch the other three soaps because I do like the genre and support it, but see no reason to not express my opinions about the fall of GH. My words can’t hurt anyone any more than it hurts me to read people say that I should recuse myself from any discussion about the show I loved for decades because I don’t like what’s been done to it!
I deleted the previous thread because, frankly, I regretted starting a debate in the first place. I honestly don’t want to incite anyone. I came here (naively) hoping to single-handedly change the opinions of all those who disapprove of Carlivati’s writing. I am simply so concerned that GH will be cancelled that it pains me to see any pointed criticism of the show. The bottom line is this. We all have a right to our own opinions, and I actually agree with TSF that sensationalism and action-driven plots, like Guza relied on, are no way to strengthen a soap opera in the long term. (To be fair, however, it was Gloria Monty and not Bob Guza or Ron Carlivati who started that tradition of writing outlandish, action-driven stories, at least on GH). But to change things is easier said than done, and that is my main point. It is difficult to know ahead of time what stories will resonate with viewers, and what will not, and it is difficult to come up with stories five days a week. Even if he isn’t satisfying the entire GH audience right now, I do believe Carlivati has the potential to write good stories; I personally enjoyed his tenure at OLTL. It will take a long time to “de-mobify” GH, and I think what we are seeing now may be the beginning stages of that process, despite the centrality of the current mob-oriented storylines.
In any event, I don’t want to start another debate. Everyone is free to speak their mind as they please, and I’m sorry for suggesting otherwise, but for me, I am happy to just enjoy the show that we have while we have it, because anything, in my opinion, is better than nothing. What I would not give to have the opportunity to have one more episode of OLTL–I would treasure it even if it were only an episode of Viki sitting on the sofa reading THE BANNER for an hour. I miss it every day, and I know that if GH is cancelled, even if it’s not the same caliber show it once was, I will miss it too.
Gloria Monty was the producer of the show and yes she wanted the writers of the show to write the action-themed episodes, and that is what people remember about her tenure with the show. But that is not all she is known for. She and Douglas Marland did not turn the show around and save it with action-themed stories. They turned it around with stories of a man battling-alcoholism, a young girl falling in love with an older man and killing him; then her mother takes the fall for her and almost gives her life up so the young girl would go free; the story of that young girl finding love for the first time; and the story of an affair between two former lovers. Those were some of the early stories. The action-themed stories didn’t start for a few years into her tenure there when Luke and Laura went on the run.
But there is also a big difference in the type of stories that Monty’s writers wrote and what Guza and Carlavati wrote. Those stories had characters that were the heart of the stories. The plots didn’t sacrifice character. They didn’t skip over important developments. They didn’t rewrite history. If a character evolved they didn’t resort to old habits just for the sake of the plot. They also built over months and did not just evolve for a few weeks during sweeps. They drew viewers in and kept them because at the heart the stories made you care about the characters.
No. 1 they were not stunts. Guza wrote action-themed shock and awe stunts. And I will agree with didja on one part — his stunt stories were a lot better than Ron C.’s are.
The tainted water story was a mess.
Under Guza and now Ron C. characters often resort to old habits, or just do stuff so out of character. Wolfe wrote boring stories but he actually got the characters better than Guza and esp. better than Ron C. Guza wrote his characters okay, but he demolished others esp. Holly, Rick Webber, Laura and Luke. But Ron C. takes the cake. So many of the characters that I once loved I hardly recognize — no. 1 offenders Anna, Carly, Sonny, Liz, and Tracy. In fact I don’t even care for characters like Anna anymore and she was once one of my absolute faves.
I don’t mind action-themed stories at all. In fact I enjoy them. But at the heart even those stories have to be about character and character’s being true to themselves. And they can’t skip major points. They have to build and the day to day story can’t be sacrificed for the stunt.
TSF, I am in awe of your extensive knowledge of the GH canvas, and I do respect your insights. Although I’ve been watching for much of my life, I wasn’t even born yet when some of the characters you mentioned were first introduced, so I cannot comment on how their characters have progressed or changed due to every different writing regime since they were first introduced. However, I agree with you that maintaining the integrity of the characters is paramount to any soap opera, and if GH, and the genre at large for that matter, has any chance to survive, respecting the integrity of the characters, and telling earnest, substantive stories, must always be the first priority.
It’s not a problem to start a debate, so there’s no need to apologize. Lively discussion is something the soaps have generated between people since the beginning, lol. I understand and empathize with being concerned about cancellation. Believe me, I loved GH and it was not an easy decision to give it up. I did struggle with my feelings of loyalty to the genre and GH, because I didn’t want to harm the show. At the same time, I was determined to not show my approval by watching what was happening to the show, from my point of view I completely and totally reject this experiment. When all the GH writers, music director, and half the behind the scenes crew were fired and replaced with OLTL people, I knew the show was going to be fundamentally changed. But I still tried to watch and support it. It just came down to supporting the GH I had watched for forty years vs supporting a new soap for me. I miss GH every day, but I’m not willing to stop fighting to get my show back yet.
I totally agree with everything you say. I esp. love what you said about starting a debate. I don’t get why folks today want to censor folks yet at the same time say everyone is entitled to their opinion. Trying to censor what people say and feel is not going to change the fact that people are turning out because they don’t like what they see.
And sadly the soaps cannot survive on the handful of viewers who either choose to ignore the problems, or honestly are so caught up in the online worship of Carlavati/Valentini that they cannot see the damage they do.
I too totally reject the experiment that is going on. And I know many others who are doing the same.
I hated the old GH under the last regime. Kudos to RC and FV.
Dont kid yourself. The only day UP for DAYS is 26/9 Wed, which #EJAMI had ‘Heat’ talk. IT averaged out the number for the week! Wait for next week.
I don’t like the hybrid GH A.K.A. The Sam McCall show with Yawn McPain in this triangle written to make her look good; I’m sick of that baby storyline, the D.I.D. storyline which is suppose to get another persona, Krystina the actress is not all there for me. I can go on and on but why bother….
I totally agree Bandele. I was going to quit when they had Liz switch the paternity also. But I have watched for so many yrs I starting watching again to support my fav actress since my fave actor is leaving soon. I’m to the point I hope once Sam gets her kid back she leaves PC. I want Liz strong and with her kids. If Jason/SB should come back sometime down the road I hope they finally give Liz and Jason a decent s/l.
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